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Summary of Question:	Sikhism's Percpective Of Suicide
Category:	General Sikhism
Date Posted:	Wednesday, 7/11/2001 11:43 PM MDT

Sat Shri Akal ji,

I am 18/m/calif. I was curious about Guru ji's say about a suicide. I currently suffer from ptsd, it's in errm you can say in it's early stages ( please don't say anything about therapy or anything related to ptsd in reply. PTSD is post traumatic stress disorder, you can find more info on it. I am not thinking 'bout killin myself or something. I just like to explore these topics.

I am very interested in gurbani and was really curious what guru ji say about suicide. I read some prior posts on suicide in Q & A forum, the question of karma was brought up and it was stated that by killing ourselves we take our karma with us after death and go back to 8.4k cycle of lives. I don't really know if that might be true. Suicide can be veiwed from two percpectives, as almost everything else in this maat lok. One is that person gives up, can't take it anymore and kills himself, where the death is voluntary. i.e. he/she could had gone on living but decided not to. But some might argue that Suicide is not a choice but rather it happens or suicide is not choosen but rather it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.
for example, i wake up every day and see the same world. it's same stuff again and again. People buy a new car/magazine/something, eventually they get bored with it, well they want a new one. A world trying to fullfil thier "wants" but open palm of wants wants everything, everthing. But that's not my reason/ problem. One must understand that if a person knows what's the right thing to do, it doesn't actually applies than he must do it. Sometimes it is good to help someone just for hell of it, without any selfishness, and smile/lough for no reason. Even if I understand that life is a complicated web and my destiny is to live it(before i natuarally die), I don't really think I must live it. I don't think it really makes a difference. I consider myself, well, an old person, way older than my actuall age, which i don't really decided rather is taged on me, 18. so i don't think there's really anything wrong with killing urself. I might as well be sitting back on my chair,relaxing and say hey, why not k

ill myself- don't really have an interest in life anymore anyway ( but just 'cause i don't have interest in life doesn't make it right to kill myself). by not interested in life i mean; people live in circles, thier mind goes from one place to other, they/I/body experiece momentry plesures/satisfactions which are not well, "complete"/perfect. For example, suppose there are pictures hangig on a wall, a looong wall, and we walk from one end of the wall to other. Well, as we go by we look at each picture, some pictures are more attractive than others. Some we only pose for 5 seconds and are not really interested in them so we move on. But there are some which are such a beuaty that we stand there for hours amazed. One point i want to bring up. There is a need to look at the pictures. when the need is fulfiled we move on. When we have had looked at the picture we look on becuase we understood it, its' old now we have looked at it, we Know how it looks. So if I look at the same picture twice, i won't see anything

new because i already know what's in it. But can there be a picture, so beautiful, so perfect that we just can't look away from it. The thought just does not pops in our mind. Then the person does not need to go any further. He/she does not needs to look at another picture to find/enjoy satisfaction as he as already found it. Same goes with life and the God. Consdiring the God the perfect picture on the wall. ( there are lot of things wrong with this idea of pictures, so please just concentrate on the idea). Another point/question is what makes the person move from one picture to another- the instinct/thirst/need for satisfaction/perfection/ to be complete. So there must be a question in order for an answer to exist.
I appolize about the loong story. thx for stickin with me, it's not over yet.
In real life, if The God shows mercy on a sould and shows himself to him/her, does the person need to live on? I know that we should do Kirat and do simran but is it neccesory? just becuase something is right doesn't mean you have to do it. This was the other way of lookin at a suicide, one example I can think is one of the ancient greek philosopher( i can't remember the name) who jumped into a volcano and killed himself.
This alone is not enough to kill/ atleast not for me. gurbani says;
"Marne ki chinta nahi
jivan kie shad as"

" Kabir, janum maran te mei raheo
satgur ke pursad"
Kabir ji also says one should not worry about wether if he will end up in narak or swarag. Narak isn't bad anymore and swarag isn't good. His updesh is to rise above the bharam of dukh and sukh and do bhagati/simran.

This all might fall under reason or samajh. But one shayar says:

"NIkal ja akal se agey
yeh chirage rah hay ( raste ka chirag hai)
manjil nahi

I don't really know if i made a point or not. but i don't really see anything with wrong or right with killing myself. If i kinda get bored with life I wil kil myself. It's not a choice i am making to avoid my karma. My karma are my karma as long as i exist. but if I understand that me is not really me alone but the creation itself, then the bharam of karama is gone.
" Sant muey kiya roeey, jo apney ghar jaye
rovo sakat bapre jo hathe hath bihaye" (sorry dun remember currect words)

lastly(?)< i mean finaly, if we argue that killing is a chioce then living is a choice too. So both are choices, it's just majority of people choose to live, only few consider dying, under need and or want.

Please reply thankyou
Wahe guru ji ka khalsa
Wahe guru ji ki Phateh ji

sicerely,
sincerly

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REPLY
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheuguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Dear One-
You say not to suggest therapy, but it's clear you need therapy for your pain. Whatever happened to you to give you ptsd has taken away your will to live, else why would you even CONSIDER suicide at all? Your mind is out of balance, and so you dwell on thoughts that reflect a death-wish, rather than thoughts that look at the expanse of this gift called life that is spread before you.

Everything that has been said in prior posts about karma and suicide and starting over is true. You expect that for the next 70 years you will see the SAME thing day after day. Life IS about choices, about using the CONCIOUSNESS-- given only to humans-- to live your life. You can decide to see the 'same thing' or 'bad' every day, or you can decide one day to wake up and FIND something different. We do kirat and simran so that we can experience the elevation of God in our daily lives. It is not about doing it "because it's right." Those who do it with sincerity and intent will tell you that they do it because it makes their lives, their days, better than if they had not. I have had this experience directly and can vouch for it. Simran eases mental pain.

You think you have seen it all. Well I can tell you that at 18 you have not, but clearly you have seen some pretty rotten stuff. So now it's time to turn that around and conciously LOOK for the good, the wonderful, the silly, and the cool in life around you. The kind of therapy I think you need is a lot of hard exercise. I also think you need kundalini yoga, which I know as a yoga teacher can do wonders to turn lives around and help heal people from ptsd, among other things. You live in California, so look for California teachers by going here: http://www.3ho.org. There is a link for teachers on top. Run 10 miles a day, volunteer to help gradeschoolers learn how to use computers. Do something that gets you outside of yourself, and involve yourself in some community activity that puts you around people you enjoy and who will come to care for you.

The mind puts forth 1000 thoughts in the wink of an eye. Simran will help heal your mind from the circular thinking I see in your post, and it will give you direction in your life. Simran helps you learn to control your mind, which appears to be stuck in a rut as a result of your ptsd. You can do simran anytime, but it's even better when you do it with others. This is another therapy for you to do.

It does not matter if you think killing yourself is wrong or right. That's because you cannot imagine that existence continues beyond this immediate human form. It does. "Aad such, jugaad such, hebhee such, Nanak hosee bhee such." True in the beginning, true through all time, true even now, Nanak He shall ever be true. Gurbani tells us God is All-in-All and that He has and always will be true, which also means that all of us that make up God's creation will always be true, will exist so long as God exists.

So you cannot imagine consequences of it from here, but they exist and they are applied. You will have to take on faith that taking your life is NOT your highest truth under ANY circumstance. It is important to understand that God gave you a human form for a reason; and the only way to learn that reason is to live your life, not to take it because you are bored.
My prayer is that you see the wonder and beauty of Life and grasp tightly to its Lotus Feet,
-DKK